Sleep, Menopause, and Stress: Insights From The Amazing Dr. Lucinda Sykes

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:00:05

Welcome to the D shift podcast, where we provide inspiration, motivation and education to help you transition from the challenges of divorce to discover the freedom and ability to live life on your own terms. Are you ready? Let's get the shift started. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the day shift. And I have got to tell you, I have somebody who I have actually been in a couple of groups and mastermind programs with, and she is an absolute resource for women over 50. So I would like to introduce you to Lucinda Sykes and Lucinda is a retired doctor in Canada, I may add. And she's also been a longtime mindfulness teacher, again specializing in assisting women over 50. And today listen to our topic is going to be about sleep. Right. That was that was our topic that we were going to focus in. Oh, yes. Because Oh, yes, I'm going to Yeah, I think we've all had that experience where we just hit that all of a sudden, we can't sleep anymore. So listen to tell us a little bit about yourself and what got you what got you interested in this and your area of passion today?

Lucinda Sykes: 00:01:17

Indeed, thank you for this warm welcome, Mardi. I'm very glad to be here. Yes, sleep is my is my major interests. My big interest, my background is in is in medicine. And I had a very happy experience in family medicine. But I moved into psychotherapy. And then I discovered mindfulness as a medical program. And since 97, in fact, I have had a clinic in Toronto called meditation for health. And we have taught 1000s of people, medical programs of mindfulness. But gosh, there was COVID. And we had to, you know, stop our in person care. And so I shifted to online work, Mardi. And now for the past couple of years, I've been very focused on the needs of women over 50, especially looking at their needs for better sleep. It's such a common problem.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:02:19

Yeah, and, and thank you for that. And so, and I, I personally had never had a problem sleeping, like I was one of those people, I was a morning person, I could get to sleep by you know, 10 o'clock, I could be up by five and nine be rolling. I hit about, I think about 5050 53 ish. And all of a sudden, I could stay up till like, two o'clock in the morning, I was still getting up at five o'clock. And I wasn't anything I just couldn't get to sleep. So what's going on with us at that point in time?

Lucinda Sykes: 00:02:52

Oh, this is one of the reasons that I so appreciate to be in this field of sleep, because it's biologically fascinating. Sleep involves the major systems of the body. And so imbalances or corrections in any body system can affect our sleep. And in these years of the perimenopause and menopause, we have important endocrine changes, hormone changes, and they do for many women affect sleep. Fortunately, once we journey into the years and decades of postmenopausal life, that endocrine imbalance does tend to recede, it's less of a concern, but there may still be a kind of fragility in sleep. And so we do need to care for ourselves and cultivate ourselves possibly with more care than we used to have back in the good old days before those those years happened. Yes. This is life.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:03:55

Yes, yes. So can you talk a little bit about the importance of sleep in in our overall health? Because I know that you know, a lot of people see well, it doesn't really matter if I don't get regular sleep or if I don't have a bedtime routine or if you know if if or I can catch up on my sleep on the weekend, even if I don't get it during the week. Can you talk a little bit about what the reality is in the role of sleep and health?

Lucinda Sykes: 00:04:20

Oh, yes, yes, I will go beyond good advice to actually look at the stunning new science that shows us in those crucial hours of sleep. Our brain is not asleep, so to speak. Our brain is not offline. It's true that we are not awake consciousness is not happening happening, but the brain is very active. During the hours asleep. The brain is cleansing itself in a in an almost an orchestrated pattern. And as the brain cleanses itself, it also rebalances the information that it has, it integrates the memories We took in during the day. And by gosh, it can even contribute to our creativity. I, I suspect that most of us in the audience have, from time to time woken up with a new idea or a problem solved. And this is a almost a universal human experience. Different cultures through the world all have this saying, of I will sleep on it. Sleep, yours are the sleep I'm yours. The hours of sleep are so important. But our culture has been a little ambivalent about sleep and kind of given the idea that sleep is something you do if you're a little lazy or not committed to the important goals of life. But it's actually the reverse. By caring for your sleep deepening your sleep, then you do become more available to the demands of everyday life.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:05:55

So if I was to use an analogy, and correct me if I'm wrong, kind of what your brain is doing in your sleep is sort of like defragging your computer. Right? It's all these partial files and redundancy. Is that is that kind of

Lucinda Sykes: 00:06:09

like? We Yes, yes, to the extent we understand the brain is fascinating. And, but we have much evidence now that the information that's in a certain region of the brain sort of temporary memory area, then we lay down memories during the day, we go to sleep. And that information in the temporary area, we call it the hippocampus, it begins to redisplay redistributed into other regions of the brain, where it becomes more embedded and becomes a long term memory. So that's just one of the brain activities that's happening as we sleep. And then let's not overlook the fact that in a way, the brain is the mastermind of the entire body. So sleep is crucial for cardiovascular health, for the health of our heart, and our immune system to the brain is part of the immune system. So sleep is central to most of the body systems, and we need to care for ourselves in this way. Yeah.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:07:15

Well, thank you for that. So do you think that that's part of the reason why if you're not getting enough sleep, you don't you lose your keys every three seconds? You can't remember where things are, yet people's names? Is that all part of we're experiencing is just kind of a deficit in that brain energy level, or?

Lucinda Sykes: 00:07:35

Yes, the computer needs to be defrag.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:07:38

Yeah, okay, great. So what are some other? Well, let me ask you one question. Because I see this all over the place, this magic number, you need eight hours of sleep? What's the reality around how much sleep we should be getting? Does it change over our lives? Or

Lucinda Sykes: 00:07:56

where does this? Well, these are surprisingly complicated questions. Because you see, science, for the most part, scientific research and the theories that come from it are based on large populations of people statistical analysis, looking at tendencies. And so we might say, well, the average person needs seven to eight hours of sleep, and so on. And we can look over the lifespan and see, you know, some change in that as the years go by. But when you're looking at the individual, and especially the individual as she is right now, then you're on a little thinner ice, it's very valuable to know what is the truth for large populations of people, but then to be judging yourself and pushing yourself to conform to the average. I don't know that that's always appropriate. You know, that's why I like to coach women individually, because we can sort of take our time and listen to the deeper nature of the woman herself, rather than trying to apply averages that are true for large numbers of people, but may not be true for her, especially at this time in her life. Okay, so yes, news. Yeah, I'm not avoiding your question. I don't know if you the statistics, and yes, seven, eight hours. That's a nice summary. And we have the research showing now that, folks, if you're getting less than seven hours sleep a night, especially if you're in the mid years of your life, the 50s or so, then second seven is pretty good. But if you're getting only six hours asleep, the research begins to show an increased risk of dementia. A couple of decades later, compelling research showing that individuals these will civil servants in Britain, who were getting only six hours of sleep or less than ate 20 years later, they had a 30% increase in dementia. And Alzheimer's, of course, is our most common form of dementia. Right? Right.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:10:11

So really important to focus in on this. I'm wondering, too, if you could talk a little bit about the difference between like six hours of sleep, or you go to sleep at, say, midnight and wake up at six o'clock in the morning, or six hours asleep, if you go to bed at nine, and then wake up and are awake for a couple of hours at midnight, and then drift back to sleep and then get us does it need continuous or how does that work?

Lucinda Sykes: 00:10:36

The research suggests that it's valuable to just let the stages of sleep on roll over the night, rather than to interrupt yourself or be interrupted. And you return to wakefulness and then have to again, descend into sleep, their eyes, very definite pattern to the staging of sleep. And it's probably valuable to allow that pattern to play itself over the night, rather than to interrupt. But life is not ideal, especially when women are caring for children. You know, we have to do what we have to do. And then there's those bathroom breaks. And sometimes that gets the mind going and we our sleep is interrupted. So in the end, ladies, not to worry, not to worry, the extra worry about I'm not sleeping, what's gonna happen to me. What's wrong, all of that is is disruptive. It accomplishes nothing. And we can just allow ourselves to be as we are, you see the body, she does know how to sleep. And if we care for her, we do follow some very simple self care practices, the odds are good that she will regain her natural rhythm of sleep. Even if we are going through an emotional disruption and emotional disruption disrupts our sleep. Then over time, we return to what our body likes to do, which is to every night she likes to sleep.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:12:13

What's What are a couple of quick little tips that maybe women might want to look at to help sort of get their body into the place to be able to sleep?

Lucinda Sykes: 00:12:22

Yes, yes. Well, one that is emphasized by virtually all the sleep scientists I know is that regularity or routine, the the sleep cycle, appreciates regularity. Well, the sleep cycle is part of regularity. And we're encouraged to go to sleep or go to bed at the same time each night we have a bed time. We never graduate from that you remember back in childhood, yes. And you go to bed your bedtime. Well, ladies, you to have a bed time. And don't be staying up scrolling through Facebook into all hours of watching one more video because you are asking for sleep problems, because you're disturbing the natural rhythm that is helping you fall asleep at night and then awaken regularly in the morning. So support this natural rhythm, have a routine go to bed at the same time and awaken at the same time. And by gosh, if you didn't get enough sleep in the night, don't lie in bed, mulling about trying to get more sleep and so on. Because you are without realizing it, you are sabotaging the next night of sleep. Instead, actually bed. When it is time to get up. do indeed get up go into life be as vigorous as you can even if you didn't get as much sleep as you wanted. See if you can avoid napping. And then when it's nighttime again, you will very likely find that sleep will be more available. That's endless well regulate your light during the day. Your inner clock your circadian clock in your brain there is masterminded by light. So you will find that sleep is more regular. If you have a period of light, preferably daylight every day, preferably at the same time for most people that will be in the morning and you would ideally be out into the into the sunshine into the daylight in the morning for about 45 minutes. You could also bring in some activity at that time. Sleep also likes a regular pattern of activity. So it might be nice to take those morning walks. And then in the as the day precedes and the afternoon comes you will if you pay close attention you will notice that the light of the day becomes a little more shall we say yellow at the height of noon time Have a kind of bluish can cast to the light. And then as the day light is fading, we go more into the yellow tones. This is deep in our biology. In fact, blue light is especially stimulating, it helps to wake us up. But the downside of that is that blue light also suppresses melatonin, that's our main sleep hormone. So if we're exposing ourselves to lots of light, at the end of the day, especially in light of a bluish cast, we are delaying our natural decline into sleep. And, unfortunately, a lot of the blue light these days is coming from all those devices that I like, yeah, I said television, and we like the computer and those handheld devices, they're giving us lots of blue light, and they will be suppressing our melatonin. And this is not conjecture. There are many studies showing that for example, if you at night before bedtime, you are using an e reader. There's lots of blue light from that. Your sleep will be subtly but significantly affected by that. Please, if you're reading at night timeline propped up in bed, choose a book be old fashioned, you can use a light, but maybe it's a light with a more of an amber quality rather than this penetrating blue light quality that we get maybe from fluorescent lights. That's another source.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:16:35

Yeah. And I actually saw like, I know my computer that I just bought, I bought a large a larger monitor. And it actually has a blue light filter setting. It makes everything look yes Emer but I use it all the time. You know, to quite often I am working Yes, in the evening. But I've noticed a big change like it really I do find Yes. sleep a little easier.

Lucinda Sykes: 00:16:57

Yes. Yes, if we can trust the technology, I mean, that's another question. I was just in the Shoppers Drug Mart or our local drugstore and saying that now they're selling glasses that claim to be blue light filters. And again, if we can trust the technology, then we can expect that wearing such glasses for a few hours. Before we plan to sleep, it would probably help our brain to release more melatonin. And we will be guided more readily into sleep.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:17:29

Thank you, thank you for those are really helpful tips. Now I do want to talk to you about one thing. What about the use of medications for sleep? I know that that's something that a lot of women, especially when they're going through menopause, they go to their doctor, they say I can't sleep their doctor goes, here's some sleeping pills. Or, you know, or even over the counter kind of sleeping pills that, you know, people can take or buy or, you know, what's the what's the reality? Or what's the effect on the body using those kinds of things?

Lucinda Sykes: 00:18:01

Thank you so much for that question, Mardi. That may be the most valuable contribution I can make. To the lives of at least some listeners, especially now that I am retired from medicine, I find that I can speak more forthrightly about the dangers of sleeping pills, and I choose that word carefully. Sleeping pills are indeed dangerous. And I am not a quack I completed my medical career and career with an unblushing unblemished record. And I still hold my profession in high esteem. But the regulatory bodies of medicine both in North America and Europe are in pretty much universal agreement sleep prescription. prescriptions for sleeping pills should be no longer than three or maximum four weeks. And if you look at the research carefully, gosh, ladies, I suggest don't take sleeping pills for longer than two weeks. The crucial problem is that these pills interfere with that process of brain cleansing and brain integration that I mentioned earlier. It's true that they may help us lose consciousness. We're not awake when we're under the influence of sleeping pills. But the brain is not functioning in a natural form. And that may be why all the research and I'm referring now to dozens of studies show a heightened risk of dementia for people taking sleeping pills, a heightened risk. This is disturbing. A higher mortality rate amongst people taking sleeping pills, an increased risk for heart problems, infection and accidents to Yeah, sleeping pills are largely a bad idea except they're good in an America shouldn't see, if you are sleepless, maybe you've just discovered the disturbing facts that are leading to your marital breakdown, quite rightly, your caring physician will prescribe sleeping pills because they don't want you to get the habit of sleeplessness. And that will tide you over very much, I hope, I hope, help you for a few weeks, so that you can in your natural way, recover so that you don't No no longer require the chemicals that are, let's face it, they're interfering with natural brain function, right, because you don't want to have a trauma in your life, which interferes with your sleep. But because you then become habituated to sleeping pills, you're left with a kind of dependency, which ultimately is undermining your health.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:20:52

Thank you. And thank you for that. And so I'm going to ask you a question. I'm not trying to put you on the spot. So if this is outside of where you feel comfortable answering, please just let me know. what about what about new products on the market that are natural like melatonin CBD CBN, there's a whole bunch of those cannabinoids that are coming up, or even the use of marijuana if you're in a place where it's legal. I know it is in Canada, I know it is in several states in the United States. What is there any benefit for using that in lieu of sleeping pills? Or is it kind of the same? It's kind of the same problem?

Lucinda Sykes: 00:21:26

Well, it's a very interesting question. In fact, I have been knee deep in the research for some time, I'm even going to be speaking on a podcast devoted to marijuana about this topic. And first off any substance that activates the brain, if you continue to take that substance over time, your brain will adjust to the presence of the substance, the it's, the brain does this. And thank goodness, it wants to stay balanced. And so if there's a chemical on board, it's on board for a while, the brain will be changed. And then when we decide to stop that chemical, the poor brain has to change back again. So we get the phenomenon of what we call tolerance, the substance loses its effectiveness. And then when we stop the substance, we get the phenomenon of withdrawal. For example, if you're taking a sleeping product of any sort, legal or illegal, over the counter or prescribed, you take it for a while, and then it usually will lose some of its capacity to help you sleep. And then further when you stop taking it. By Gosh, you're gonna think Oh, my insomnia is back. But in actual fact, what you're suffering from is a withdrawal from the substance that you were taking for such a time. Now that's the kind of universal physiological truth, and it will apply to these other other products, other substances. The research is not yet there for me to cite research about the use of cannabinoids, or maybe more generally marijuana for sleep. So I won't I, I hesitate to comment on that. Sure. But you know, if you can sleep well without taking something as they say that that is the route you want. And if you need to, as they say, Take something, let it be a kind of one off, okay, a very short period of time, to not develop habits whereby your body has to habituate. It has to the brain has to rebalance in order to tolerate this chemical.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:23:40

Yeah, I think that is wonderful advice. So thank you listen to and I really appreciate because you are such an expert. I really appreciate the fact that you're not going to make wild conjectures. You're just you're talking about the research and from your knowledge so I really do appreciate you doing that because so many people just answer questions. It's kind of like to get that so I really honor your your

Lucinda Sykes: 00:24:02

appeal. I feel responsible. This is so important.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:24:05

It is this is a really important topic. So we have covered a ton of information. It's hard to believe 25 minutes have gone by here. Yeah, absolutely. Um, what do you think Lucinda is the one thing you would like women listening to this podcast or man who may be listening in to remember when they take out their earbuds and go on about their day?

Lucinda Sykes: 00:24:27

First is that there is room and even reason for optimism. Your your body wants to sleep. And it does know how to sleep. I'm emphasizing the body folks because it's not the mind that takes us into sleep. It's the body. So if you are having transient sleeplessness due to life circumstances, ride the boat, maybe your physician gives you a short course of sleeping pills to get you through, ride the boat and However, in a short while, you're going to be able to help things to stabilize. Care for your your your sleep. There are Your physician will give you lists of good advice. Heck, I've got a good list called Happy sleep secrets. Good advice as to how you can care for your sleep, and follow the advice. Don't just read it. And I think that's a good idea. And then carry on with life. Care for your your body, your sleep as you would care for your beloved child, or your beloved pet. Your dog needs to go out every day, well take yourself out into the sunshine every day at a regular time, that kind of thing. So that you are caring for yourself so that your body can regulate once again,

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:25:49

wonderful, thank you for that. That's a really good thing. Do something regular everyday in the morning, get outside, get some fresh air, get some sunshine sounds like a great sounds like your mission. So listen to if people want to learn more about what you do, or perhaps work with you to get assistance with getting back into a healthy sleep pattern. What's the best way to reach you?

Lucinda Sykes: 00:26:12

Well, thank you for that question. Mardi. There's two questions. And that really, I do have offer private coaching for women who are wrestling with sleep problems, especially if you've had sleep problems for a long time. I really do like to help. If you're dependent on the sleeping medications, I can assist you with that period, even though your physician of course will be involved. Find me in that capacity at at my website, which is my name. Lucinda Sykes, MD. Don't forget the MD, the LucindaSykesmd.com, you'll have a website there will give you lots of information about me and a way to contact me if you are interested in private coaching. as well. You're very welcome to download my, my colorful little PDF called Happy sleep secrets, which is science based, summarizing the most crucial ways that you can support your sleep. And that happy sleep secrets is available for free download at Lucinda gift.com. It's all one word. Listen to gift.com

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:27:25

Thank you so much. And all that information will be in the show notes. And so people can get and I'm going to encourage you to reach out take a look at loosen this website. It's got a ton of information. So listen to thank you so much for being on the D ship. We have really appreciated this. And I know this has been helpful to a lot of people, including myself. So thank you for your expertise.

Lucinda Sykes: 00:27:47

Thank you for this today Mardi for good nating Yes,