Parenting Can Be Hard – But There Is Help!

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:00:05

Welcome to the D shift podcast, where we provide inspiration, motivation and education to help you transition from the challenges of divorce to discover the freedom and ability to live life on your own terms. Are you ready? Let's get the shift started. Hello, and thank you so much for showing up for another episode of the D Shift podcast. And today I have Jaci Finneman, who is a phenomenal podcast host herself. She is a individual who works with parents to become confident leaders for their kids. She has a background and in her family counts as in home family counselor, and program coordinator. And she is also an author. She has written how many books now Jaci, how many books are you?

Jaci Finnema: 00:00:54

We've got one published but two on the way.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:00:56

There you go. And I happen to have a friend who was one of Jaci's original authors in her books. And I gotta tell you, it's a fantastic book. I've seen snippets of it, and I can't wait to get a copy of it myself. So, Jaci, take it away. Tell us a little bit about yourself. I know you do a fantastic thing with your no parent. No care, no problem parenting. Oh my gosh, I can't even talk today. No problem, parenting group, and podcast. So tell us what got you started in this area?

Jaci Finnema: 00:01:27

Well, thank you for having me today. Marty. You were on my podcast though. No problem. Parenting podcast is what that's called. And I had you on and we just kind of got to know each other. And yes, we have a friend in common Michelle Benigno, a good grief counseling, and yeah, our parenting Good grief parenting and, and so I'm just happy to be with you today. And no problem. Parenting is all about how to take a problem and turn it into a no problem. It's not saying you just say oh, no problem, my kids misbehaving whatever, you know, that's not what it means at all. But problems are meant to be dealt with and overcome. It's right in the desert definition of the word problem. And so after, you know, a good 20 years as an in home family counselor and program coordinator for a nonprofit that specialized in working with kids with mental health diagnoses, I ended up leaving that career the company with a company that I loved, but really because I wanted to help parents in their day in day out actual real life struggles in their home outside of therapy. So I no longer do any clinical services. I'm strictly a parent coach, not strictly I'm funnily a parent coach. And, and for the past nine years, I've had my company hello world. And then in 2019, I created the no problem parenting online course. And no problem parenting programs, so I can help you become the confident leader, I say your kids crave you to be, we don't have to know everything as parents, we can't possibly know everything. But we can resource right. And as the more confident we are about under taking care of ourselves, knowing our limits, you know, getting the education we need on if our child is diagnosed with ADHD, or if they're being bullied in school, or if we're going through a divorce or, you know, like we can become, the more confident we are, the better our kids do. Yeah, and more secure they feel, the less anxiety they have. You know, and so that's why I created the program. It's just a three step program. That's kind of a foundational program. So meeting you, Marty, I've already sent some people your way, because I don't specialize in divorce. However, I can help parents with sort of that foundational mindset of what is it? What is your role as a parent? I often say parents are being too nice to mean, or they're trying to solve a problem that they know nothing about all on their own. Yeah. And they're too embarrassed or proud to reach out for support, right? Yeah. No, no problem. Parenting teaches three steps, Seek first to understand why is my child behaving the way they are? And why am I the parent responding or reacting, you know, the way that I am? So we want to get to the root of that. And then step two is to prepare for the worst. I think you would agree, Marty, everybody else that's listening would agree or watching would agree, the more prepared we are for something, the better we handle it, the better we respond, the better we overcome it, right. And so I teach parents how to prepare for the worst, those worst behaviors that you dread coming home to that you know are going to happen day in and day out. What I kind of think of what's the worst thing that could happen? And then we work backwards from that. Yeah, okay. And then step three is to change the conversation. I actually believe that we're giving our kids too much unconditional praise. So much so that they don't believe it themselves. And So then we look like to the child when we're pouring it on and saying, Oh, you're so nice, you're so special, you're so good at school, you're smart, you have friends, or you have lots of friends when they're like, I don't have any friends, when we're trying to convince them and pour on all this unconditional praise, we look weak, we look kind of stupid, like we don't, we would never understand. And our kids end up in the reverse protecting us from the negative thoughts and feelings that they're having, because they don't think we're strong enough to handle it. Yeah. Or that will fly off the handle if we knew the real truth about them. So I teach and change the conversation, I teach a lot about conditional positives and conditional praise. Before we do the unconditional, so factual, conditional is factual. Tell them something factual, that they can't really dispute.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:05:47

I love that. And, you know, it's it's funny, I learned something new about people all the time. So full disclosure, I was a behavior consultant for school districts for probably 12 years, and I worked with kids with mental health, behavioral health, and, and a concurrent act of violence on a school campus, that was the criteria to get into that program. So so we will have things in common. So I'm live, I'm really interested in what you talked about, because I too, am of the belief that you can blow sunshine up your kids skirt as long as you want. And that doesn't make the sun shine. What it makes is it makes your child feel like they have to live an illusion that you have created for them. So tell us a little bit about what one thing is unconditional. You know, you have to pretend that everything's great. You have to say like you said, a child that has maybe one friend, you have to say, Oh, lots of friends like why parents today? And maybe in the past as well. But I think more today, why do you feel the need to make those kinds of statements?

Jaci Finnema: 00:06:54

Well, I think we just all want the best for our kids. And we fear we worry, we feel bad for we feel sorry for I mean, this has been since what baby boomer generation, right? That parents have tried to make life easier on their kids, because they didn't want their kids to go through the same things that they went through. Well, it's even before that, really, but you know, and it's we're robbing our kids of opportunities when we do that. Because the reason we are who we are as the parent today is because of our experiences. Now yes, we would like some for some of us, we'd like our kiddos to not have to, you know, work harder instead work smarter, right, or to not have to go through some of those same things. So it's great to try to prevent some of that stuff, especially when it's a safety thing or a trauma or an abuse thing, or, you know, yeah, something like that. But things happen, right, and we shouldn't be protecting our kids and trying to make it better for them, we should be giving them the skills, and the self esteem and the self regard to be self reliant and resilient. And, and send them that message that we believe they're capable of getting through the hard times, right. So you know, and change the conversation, I use a lot of empathy versus sympathy, we don't want you give us you give a sympathy card to somebody who's lost a loved one. We don't want to be giving our kids sympathy when they've lost a friend or had a bad breakup with their boyfriend or whatever. We want to give them empathy. So empathy has a little bit of sympathy in it in that in that sadness, we can feel sad for them, right? But we're not owning the sadness and feeling just as bad as they are. Right. We're here as confident leaders to be able to say, I know this is hard for you. I might even cry with my kid a little bit over something that's been really tough. And then it's my responsibility to help them lift up out of that, you know, that sad feeling, or that worry or that anger?

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:08:47

Right. And so here's something that tell me what you feel about this statement. So I've heard, you know, we've all heard about the helicopter parents that's been around for a long time. And lawn mowers, yeah, lawn mower. Bulldozer parents, you know, they just knock everything out of their kids way. Here's, here's what I see. Because I am starting to work on it. I'm at the age where I'm starting to work with 20 year olds that are now 2030 year olds that are like half my age. And so one of the things that I've noticed is that for a lot of these kids because they've never had to problem solve, because they've never had to deal with the loss of something the loss of a friendship or you know, everything's been made better for them or patched up or whatever terms you want to use. When they are going through things as adults. They have no experience. They have no foundation for how to handle it. They lose a job, they don't get hired. Somebody doesn't call them back. They just they crumble and so it is part of what you're teaching parents really helping them enable their kids to handle future life problems. You see that as kind of the role that confident leaders play in their role as parents?

Jaci Finnema: 00:10:05

Yeah, absolutely. And confident leader, you so it's about guiding our kids. And there's different phases. I think lots of lots of coaches and lots of people talk about this, how, you know, when they're really little, we're doing almost everything for them, even though they're the toddler age, and they're that, you know, in the in the terrific twos, as I call them, but a lot of people call them the terrible twos and the meltdowns and the Tantrums, we're still doing a lot for them, even though they're starting to show their independence on you know, I can, I can do things on my own. But as they get into those teenage years, we're really facing the tween the teenage years, we're really phasing into the coach role. Right. But oftentimes, when parents don't shift to the coach role, and they're still making everything easier, or better, or accommodating or convincing, or coercing, you know, kids, I think that's when we start to see that self esteem really lack and although the kid may up here, the teenager may appear to be doing really well. Because hey, kind of life is easy for them, you know, if they have a problem, or some mom and dad are gonna fix it, they're gonna jump in and solve it for me, so they can kind of sit back. But what I've seen a lot too and those 20 year olds or so like you're talking about Marty, they're bombing out in college. Yeah. And I It breaks my heart used to just frustrate me now It breaks my heart when I hear about a parent calling up a college to talk to a professor, because their kid didn't get a good grade or something like that. And I think Oh, my God, that person is that that 20 year olds never going to be employable. Yeah. You know, they're definitely going to have to be an entrepreneur on their own because nobody's gonna hire, hire them. So, you know, going back to, I just think that we're robbing our kids and, and I, and it's not ill intended, right, parents aren't intended, they want the best for their kids, they're really trying to raise, you know, great kiddos. But the pendulum just kind of swung a little bit too far with not wanting our kids to ever feel the pain or repercussions of their mistakes or their actions. And, and so that's where I say oftentimes to parents are being too nice. Some of the parents that I say that to, you know, they're calling me super frustrated and defensive, and, and embarrassed. And, you know, just just downright like, I don't know what else to do with this kid kind of stuff. And then they tell me all the things that they've done, and I'll say, I think I got this figured out, I said, I think you're actually being too nice. Oh, no, no, we yell, they'll say we yell, we fly off the handle all the time. Right? Probably, you know, probably do. But what did you do? All the times before you blew your Kool Aid last year cool. You were convincing, you are coddling you are giving in your you know, stretching the limit, you weren't following through with, you know, the cause and effect consequence that you placed in front of the kid. And then they didn't do what you asked him to do, and you didn't uphold, you know, your end of the deal. And provide that consequence, you went like another chance and a third chance and a fourth chance. And then finally, you're just like fed up, because they're not accepting your kindness and your, you know, your your second chances and all that, so then you do just fly off the handle, because you can't take it anymore. If we are consistent, and cause and effect and matter of fact, right in the beginning of a direction, and we hold our ground not being mean, because that's the opposite end, right? As being too mean telling your kid to jump in how high right and not letting them have any control or independence over a situation. Those kiddos turn out to do all kinds of sneaky, wild behaviors. Because when their parents not around, it's like, oh, look, my only my parents could see me now. And it's like they they end up thinking how great it would be to get back at them. Right? But, but being really consistent kids crave our leadership. They just absolutely crave our leadership. They don't like it all the time. I have so many stories I can tell you, Marty about even working with little kids. I sometimes help out at daycares when I go to training for for daycares. And I had this one experience with this classroom of pre K four year olds. And they were just kind of wild not listening to the teacher running or you know, prowling around and around not doing their circle time stuff and following directions like they should. And I kind of just stood up and said, Hey, everybody, like, catch a bubble. And they were like, we don't do that anymore. You know, they're fourth four year olds. And it was like, I kind of felt like they were doing some preschool behavior. Now four year old behavior. So I kind of, you know, caught their attention, explained how things work. When you get new, somebody gives you a direction use and I said I'm giving a direction. I'd say Now when I say a direction I want you to say got it. So I know you understand. So I'll say everybody said on your spot. Got it. And they say got it. And this teachers, the couple of teachers in the room kind of looking at me like ooh, because they're super nice and sweet people. Right? Right. And they kind of thought, Oh, I'm not yelling, but I'm being really firm. And I'm just like exerting my authority here, you know, but it wasn't yelling. And so they do that. And so I we practiced and we did some things and some of the kids that I redirected were really like a friend did buy that these little four year olds like they had, like they were in trouble or something. And I had to say a couple of times because you're not in trouble. I just were practicing. When a teacher says something, what do you, you know, how do you and it's not just about compliance, but we had to whip this into shape, right? So I do all of this. And I said, Okay, last thing before I leave, I said, Hey, kiddos, we're gonna practice getting in a line, everybody's gonna line up and you're gonna go by Miss Suzy Oh, caller. And Miss Suzy is going to be at the lead and everybody else is going to line up and I stood way back by the end of the line. Guess what happened? You would have thought because I was whipping that room into shape. Right? Those kids would have wanted Miss Suzie. No, they all they didn't even line up in their line. They all wanted to be in the back of the line by me. Right. Right. Because they could trust that I was a person that when I said, I did I follow through. And I wasn't mean I was I was guiding and leading them in a way that they could feel secure. And even though they were not, they weren't sure like, am I getting yelled at or not? You know. So anyway, then as that I'll just I'll wrap this up quick here, Marty. But as that was about to get done, they had free play. And they started to do free play. Again, it got super noisy kids were taking toys out not putting them back the room in like 15 minutes was a disaster. Yeah. And so I said to them, I said up clean up time, we're ready to be done. Thanks for letting me know. It's just too much right now, guys, you know. So they start cleaning up which half the room did and the other half. They were still kind of playing and messing around. So little ways into it. I said, All right, everybody stopped and the kids that had cleaned up, I had them go sit at the table, they could start coloring the other kids. I said, you guys can finish cleaning up. And one girl looked at me just said no. Now this was a girl who had rarely been in trouble. Right? So long story short, I had her go sit, take a little break. When I have kids sit, it's a break. It's not a timeout. And it's not a time, man. It is just go collect your thoughts, right? 30 seconds to a minute. That's all they need. Invite her back. And she kind of got teary eyed and she was really nervous about me doing this because she had never had to go sit right. She comes back over. She finished his cleaning app as the kids were doing their thing. I said, Hey, come here. For a second, I want to talk to you. I looked at her and I said and this is what I'm going to introduce to you now Marty, before we end up going today, my free technique that I'd like to share with everybody is called the makeup right technique. And so I've got a free download people can go to No problem parents.com And and get that. But I had her come over and I said hey, so you know, before when I asked, I said just time for everybody to clean up. What happened? Step one, what happened? She said, put her head down. She was really embarrassed. I said, Sweetheart, you're not in trouble. I'm really it's really okay. I said, I just wonder what happened. I said no. I said Good job, being honest. That's step two. Good job being honest. She was so confused and like me. But when kids are confused, they're curious. And that means they're in this part of their brain right now the back part fight or flight? And I said, so I was just wondering, what do you think you could do to make it up to me? Or what do you think you could do to make it right? And she kind of was confused and didn't know that step three, what are you going to do to make it right? Step four is would you like some ideas? And she of course said yes. Because she doesn't know me from boo yet. Right? Right. You know what, I'm going to be leaving here pretty quick. And I'd really appreciate it if you go open the door for me when I left. That would really fill my heart and make me feel good. Would you be able to do that? Yes. She said she would do that. I said, All right, high five. Good job making it right. So I waited a little bit about five minutes or so. And then I said, All right, everybody, I gotta go. It's been nice meeting all of you. And they're waving bye, Miss Jackie, you know, all this. And they're, they're all great. And I didn't even have to say to the little girl, would you please go up in the door for me, she ran to that door on her own looked up at me with the Oh, I get goosebumps thinking about it. opened that door for me and felt so good. And we high fived on the way out. So it's an example of how kids crave leadership. But if they start to tear up because you've, you know, reprimanded them or directed them to something or told them no or made them stop. Don't feel sorry for them. When they do that. That's the you want them to feel bad from the inside a little bit. We don't want to punish, right? Yeah. But that we want them to recognize that that was not an acceptable thing that hurt somebody else's feelings or caused a problem for somebody else. So it ended up being the best thing. Those kids could not wait for me to come back the next time.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:19:23

And I think I think what you just did illustrated like a gazillion behavioral components that we work on. But the big one was that the person who caused the mistake goes for adults as well. The person who caused the problem, the hurt to the other person needs to acknowledge it was their fault for doing it. Right. They need to acknowledge that they feel bad about it and they need to acknowledge that they have the ability to make it right or to offer. renumeration, whatever word you're going to use in there. It is that sense of my I have to take respond. stability for what I did. And I am going to offer something that is going to compensate you for the pain and suffering that I caused you, which is what the civil court system is based on. Right. Right. But what I think we I got what I think we were I think a lot of schools and parents and everybody else falls down on. Is that false saying I'm sorry, makes it better? I'm sorry, doesn't do jack shit. I'm sorry to say that that abruptly but it doesn't. I'm sorry. Only makes you feel better who you know if somebody has wronged you? I want somebody to make it. Wait, I love that thought. And I, what I liked is you never once had that child say I'm sorry. Because Oh,

Jaci Finnema: 00:20:44

I should have prefaced that. But it's actually the episode. I think it's 23 of my podcast, I talked about this in the title of the podcast is, I'm sorry, isn't enough? Or is? Yeah. Because what happens when two kids, let's say one kid bumps another kid over the head with a toy, right? We go over there. And we say we pull them apart? Or we take the toy away. And we say hey, now you say you're sorry. Yeah, that kid was really mad. They're not gonna they're not feeling sorry. So they might say, sorry. And then look the other way. And then as adults, we say, Okay, that's good. Now you guys go on and play. Yeah. Well, the victim, the kid who was hit has not only been hit, they've been lied to. Yeah. And then notice that story?

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:21:26

Well, we all know when there's when somebody's not giving an authentic story.

Jaci Finnema: 00:21:31

Yeah. And so what do we look like to the kids? Yeah, I mean, the kids know, in their head, especially as they grow. They know that is one of the most ridiculous things is like, oh, that's all I had to do. And you'll hear kids say that after a while, they'll continue to misbehave, they'll continue to hurt their friends take things away, do whatever. And the minute they get caught. Yeah, they'll look at you and go, sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. And they do it really quick. Because they think okay, that's, that's all that the adult needs to hear. Exactly. Yeah. But this also works like you mentioned with the adults. And so when we screw up as parents, with our kids, when we end up flying off the handle and giving a really ridiculous consequence, like rounding a kid for a week, or three weeks or something. If your kids are annoying and irritable, and they're missing, why would you want to ground and then you have to be around them even more, you know, like, there's got to be another way. But what we can say to them later, and you always use this technique, after everybody is calm, the two of you, whoever's involved. And later, usually hours, a few hours later, little ones you have to do a little bit quicker in the situation that I was just explaining I was going to be leaving altogether. And she may not see me for another week. So I had to take care of it right there. But it's later and so you come back to your kid. And you can say, You know what, the other day, I was so frustrated, stressed, running behind late, and I snapped at you. And I didn't mean to do that. And I should not have done that. That was I'm really sorry. What can I do to make it up to you? Yeah. Now again, you don't have to say I'm sorry. But in that when you are truly sorry, say it sorry, is great to say. And it's not? Yeah, I can add the I'm wondering what I can do to make it up to you. Yeah. And so then your kid you and your kids can make lists of Make It Right? Random Acts of Kindness that would fill your tank when you've been wronged or hurt, you know, or offended or something like that. And those can be anything from your kids going to a movie with you that you want to see that's age appropriate, right, or to the grocery store with you without complaining and they're going to push the cart, or to open the car, any door you when you're with your kid any door during the week when you're with them that they're going to open the door for you. That one works really well with elementary and youngers because, well it works with teenagers too. But those little ones will remember usually after a couple of days, the parent will forget and they'll go to open a door themselves. And the kid will run up ahead No, no, how am I making it right? And they'll open the door for Yeah, they should not just about consequences for Make It Right,

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:23:59

right. And it's really that social justice. And the thing that I'm going to tell you and any of my people that have worked with me, that works really well with CO parents or people going through divorce as well. It's not just for parents and kids. It's for interpersonal interactions in the office, in the workplace, with your neighbors, with your spouse, with your family members, that that that step process works with everything. Yeah, Jackie, we have covered, we have covered a wide range of behavioral issues. I love talking to other people who work with kind of positive behavior methods. So I really enjoy that. So tell me if you were or tell us. If you were if I was to ask you what is the top of the mind issue you would like people working with their kids to remind parents working with their kids to remember from this conversation when they take out their earbuds go on about their life? What do you want them to remember?

Jaci Finnema: 00:24:55

There's so many things what I think I like to say to parents the most is don't go it alone. If you have a question, you don't have to do months of coaching or counseling or therapy, it can be short, it can, you know, but get somebody that gets it that can understand you can, you can get support from and when you don't have that. And if you don't have that, or you're still searching for the right person or the right resource or whatever, I want you to remember that I'm particularly rough days, when you feel like you cannot possibly endure that your track record for getting through those days so far. Is 100%. And I always say that's pretty darn good.

Unknown: 00:25:33

That is Yeah,

Jaci Finnema: 00:25:34

keep keep going. Keep going I get it it's it can be so hard and you need a confidant you need somebody that doesn't know you as well, you know, that isn't going to just be kind of nice to you. They're actually going to support you through the good, the bad, the ugly and all the all the all the things and empower you and lift you up.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:25:54

Yeah. JA, you are one of those people that can do that. So if people want to work with you, or learn more about your program, or catch your no parent, no problem parenting podcast, where should they contact you? Or how can they get reach out?

Jaci Finnema: 00:26:09

The easiest way is just go to the main website, which is no problem parents.com If you put your name and your email in there, you're gonna get a copy of that make it right technique, a free download. You can always unsubscribe later, if you get too many emails, I totally get how that happens. We have a copy of the book on the website, there's a little tab that says Book. And there's a tab for the podcast, the no problem parenting podcast. So I have guests on all the time and I put my own episodes in there too about some of these fun techniques.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:26:36

Love it. And I'm going to encourage you definitely listen into Jackie's podcasts. I've listened to a bunch of episodes and they are fantastic. She has some really, truly remarkable people on her podcast. So

Jaci Finnema: 00:26:46

Jack like you and Miss Maroney.

Mardi Winder-Adams: 00:26:50

Thank you so much for being here today Jackie and sharing all your wisdom expertise. This has been phenomenal.

Jaci Finnema: 00:26:56

Well, thank you very much for having me. Anytime we got to do more of this. You're so funny